This is something I wrote during my hiatus. It's obviously a little out-of-date, but I wrote it, so I'm going to post it! No typed word goes to waste...I'm going green up in here! I wrote this immediately after going offline.
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Update on my friend from before who's giving up: she still hasn't gotten any serious interest. I know she'd be a better teacher than most profs I've had are. And her research is awesome. It's such a shame. However, in the past month since I gave her my recommendation, my company has given her an offer. More than double the salary she would've gotten on academia, but she'll be in another group in my company. So I won't be able to work with her :( . But she'll be here :) . She's seemed extra stressed and depressed about this whole thing since she knows she's qualified, it's just that departments don't want her for some reason. It's like she got a consolation prize worth more money than the grand prize. It's a shame she won't be training our next scientists, but she'll at least be creating devices that will keep them alive longer.
I have a different friend who's been at a post-doc at a highly regarded school for four years. Same post-doc. For four stinking years. He's been academic focused since a child and applies every year. The first year he got no bites, then each year after he gets between 2-4 on-sites with no offer. He only applies to top-notch schools. Not just R1, but cream-of-the-crop R1s. He clearly wants it more than my other friend since he's willing to try year-after-year with little luck. I jokingly said that he could go to industry (although I don't consider him as talented as the other friend: boring research, okay teaching record, plus he's a white male. His advisors are adored though, which I think he's banking on), and he very sternly said no. He wants to teach and do research. I really don't think I have the energy to do what he has gone through the last few years. Consistently getting turned down. Making very little cash. I do envy that he gets to do crazy seemingly nonbeneficial research. And he gets to pick his hours and be surrounded by smart people all the time. He's feeling like it's not going to happen again this year, and he said if that happens he will consider going to a lower-level R1. It's really crazy how badly he wants it. I like him a lot as a friend, but honestly I don't see him being a great prof like my friend that has given up. I really hope he finds the position he's looking for, I'm just blown away by the dedication. Maybe that's what it takes: berating search committees year after year until they say yes. I've got 2 more search cycles in me, we'll see if I have his type of dedication.
If he keeps getting on-sites but no offer, that means there is something wrong and waiting it out won't help. Obviously his CV etc are fine, he's getting interviews, but nobody actually wants to hire him, and that's on him.
ReplyDeleteI would be more disappointed for your friend who got no interviews and no chance to show what she's worth; this latter dude, not so much. He appears deluded as to his quality and/or the quality of what he is presenting. He may find that even "lower tier R1s" are impervious to his "charms." We are not toothless Hillbillies at these institutions that he looks down upon. He should also know that people do compare notes and once you have interviewed a number of times but with no offers, people do wonder what's wrong with you; he may find that the number of interviews declines from now on.
I have to wonder when Mr. Persistent will go out of the top-10. I was ecstatic when any school offered. I think if you truly are great, you will do well. He just wants the name. Given, not having terrific resources around for lab stuff would make things tough but he's stingy.
DeleteI, too, am insanely disappointed in Ms. QuitLookingforAcademia! Especially since I'm moving to academia! She's so freaking talented!!! As a pseudo-update: she's started here and she's already wowing people. It truly is a shame she won't be training the next generation. I am constantly wondering why faculty can't look past the hatred for her old advisor. Aren't we supposed to be adults?
I know how your friend feels. My applications materials are supposedly very strong as tons of people have reviewed them. But no one wants to call me. I suspect it's because of my pedigree, and that depresses me. I've got a sneaking suspicion that I will also be looking for an industry job. I can't post-doc any longer.
ReplyDeleteAnon, I am so sorry! Unfortunately, pedigree counts for a whole lot. There are many great candidates who never get a chance because their pedigree is not awesome enough. Having been on the faculty search end, we have 20 people who look great but we can invite to interview only 3, and these must have the blessing of the executive committee and the dean. It's not easy to push a weak-pedigreed candidate past these two entities; I would say that you have to be considerably more productive per unit time than others with a better pedigree to make up. And have excellent letters from top people in the field. It's tough.
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